OfflineRecently I finished a deal that had to have been the most draining and wacky deal I've ever completed.... Well it first went wrong when I inquired about the status of my prelim title work for the deal and found out that my rep at the title company was no longer there (I worked with her for 4 years now). Her boss emailed me back and told me she was no longer with the company and also that my title work hadn't even been ordered.... Well I was able to get the paperwork in about a weeks time, which allowed me to still close on time. I received a call from a gentleman who saw my Craigslist ad for a fixer upper. His son was moving to Indy to go to school (they lived about an hour and a half away). I met them at the house. They informed me that they were going to be looking about 6 other houses in the area and that they would call me back if interested. A few days later I get a call from the father son team and they tell me that they want to view the property again to get a good estimate on repairs (dad is a contractor). Again, I meet them at the house and they tell me that they will be in contact if they decide to make an offer. Dad called me later and threw out a low ball number, we were able to agree on a number (I did come down because most of the money was the son' sand I wanted to help him out). When I called to notify the sellers (husband and wife) I was informed that the husband had been admitted into the hospital over the weekend and was going to be having surgery the day of our closing.... On the same day, I get a call form title company telling me that there were some conditions that needed to be satisfied prior to closing. The husband had been wheelchair bound for the last 10 years so they requested a mobile closing. The seller closing happened on one day and the buyer the next., but the morning of the seller closing I had to work on getting the conditions resolved to move the deal. After getting all paperwork resolved, I had to take the paperwork to the hospital to have the sellers sign , then submitted. Next, it was time for the mobile closing so the notary headed to the hospital but somehow timed it wrong and missed the wife. So we had to call the title company and have her make a second trip to the sellers residence that same night to close. This time there was a fee involved, and guess who ended up paying it? You got it, me! 
The next day the buyers arrived at closing at 11 as planned and I picked my check up around 11:30. I called them to make sure everything had went smoothly and they assured me it had. About 2 hours after closing a get a call from the buyer and it goes a little something like this "Hey Lenee, did you know there was a double homicide here?". Me: Wait, excuse me what...my jaw fell to the floor. Apparently the neighbors saw them moving stuff in and came over and had a conversation. So before I could even get angry, I assured him that I would get to the bottom of it and call him back. I had my partner call the seller wife while I quickly did some online research. Sure enough, I discovered that there was in fact a double homicide at the residence. My partner called me back and confirmed also. I couldn't if been more angry, like how do you forget to disclose that???! So after about 50 calls back and forth between buyers, sellers and title company trying to get the deal closed (which it did) I now had a new challenge. That was to figure out what the heck to do! First thing I did was to seek legal counsel and speak with a real estate broker to see if I could be in any hot water. Next, was to find out what the buyers wanted to do: 1) we would try to resale and recoup his money (of course disclosing) 2) try to get original sellers to buy back 3) he mentioned legal actions. After conversation with son they decided to see if they could just sell it back to original sellers and that's what we did. Due to the awkwardness of the issue, both parties requested that I schedule the meeting and be there in person to oversee. This time we just decided to do a quit claim deed, since title had literally been conveyed a day before. I took my check and converted into a cashiers check along with what the sellers received and gave it back to the man and his son and gave the keys back to the original seller (after all paperwork was completed). The moral of the story is to be ethical. Selling a property in which someone was murdered and not disclosing it is just wrong, so I did what I could to try and right the wrong. At the end of the day, the seller lost the sale, I lost my fee, and the buyers lost closing costs all due to something that could of been avoided. And now, you can bet your butt that I will be researching most if not all properties before I lock them up.
Lenee
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
You handled the situation perfectly. It wasn't really your fault, the seller didn't disclose to you about the double homicides. I understand the seller didn't get the sale but thats they're fault for not being upfront with you. Now you may just want to research every property before you put it under contract. To be honest now that i read you story I will research every property as well.
Reynold Orozco
No kidding Reynold! That's something that most probably don't think about, but I sure will from here on out. You live and you learn. I'm glad it happened on a smaller deal.
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
You did a good job. Sounds to me like everything happened so fast.
Wow, I am speechless but agree with you all on being ethical
Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
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Our Heart's Desire must be nurtured by our mind,to give birth to common sense, that will enable us to seek out the path less traveled, with the greatest Personal Growth. -J.R.-
Thank you for sharing this story, that we should also look closely at the properties we are selling. wow!
www.tw4homes.com website
https://tvallc.isrefer.com/go/RehabLite/reigirl/ FREE SOFTWARE FOR WHOLESALERS, REHABBERS AND AGENTS! Present professional looking deals to buyers and lenders as well as run your numbers and get the ROI.
It did happen all pretty fast. Def think this was worth sharing
! May save someone else the trouble!
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
Joel,
I was just as speechless myself :0
Tammy,
Def a learning lesson! Maybe we'll hook up one day, just been crazy busy!
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
Talk to you soon!
www.tw4homes.com website
https://tvallc.isrefer.com/go/RehabLite/reigirl/ FREE SOFTWARE FOR WHOLESALERS, REHABBERS AND AGENTS! Present professional looking deals to buyers and lenders as well as run your numbers and get the ROI.
Perhaps it is different in your state, but a double homicide is not a required disclosable event in Ohio as it is not an issue that really affects the house. Poor water lines, bad drainage, asbestos, lead paint, leaky roofs, etc. are disclosable as they directly are related to the operation of the home. A double homicide only affects the psychology of the buyer. Due diligence on the part of the buyer is needed to ferret out that issue if that is something he was interested in knowing. (just like he is responsible for determining issues about the school district, the local crime rate, and anything else is interested in knowing. Unless he lied to you regarding that issue (if you asked), I'm not sure there is a cause of action. You're probably more lucky that the seller reversed course instead of simply saying "buyer beware." in this situation. Just my thoughts.
I do not believe in the no win scenario
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Trey,
I understand what you're saying, but in the scope of things I felt that was the best option. However, I also mentioned that buyers are to do their own dd prior to purchasing. Although he said he'd bought a few houses before, he still thought there was a recision period. I am glad that the original seller agreed to take back, otherwise I would of tried to bring a new buyer. Since I'm not licensed, there's no liability on my part, but I did what I felt was right.
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
Thanks Lenee, for sharing this experience. Wow. Just goes to show you, it's always good to talk to the neighbors before closing on a deal.
Hope your next one goes smoother!
Teresa
College Station, TX
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"Declare that you will prosper despite every difficulty that may come your way. Don't just survive; thrive!"
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You are exactly right Teresa! I usually let the end buyer do their dd. I will def be more alert however
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
Funny how things work! I've been able to find the buyers another deal. Looks like it will end up being a win, win, win
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
your "WHY" is adorable. all the best
walt
Wow... After you do all the numbers & research on homes and find them good to go, who do you contact to find a crime report so you you don't have to call to investigate every time you find one? Is there a printed list you can get somewhere?
Thanks Walt! I just kept imaging myself and my child in the buyers position. Some said oh well a deal is a deal, but I didn't care;) and now looks like I'll still get the sale!
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
*imagining
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
Dallas,
Well usually most owners will inform. Other people use the crime map on Trulia. I for one, was able to jump online and quickly find what I needed. There's also always the neighbors, usually a good source of info.
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
Consider this..... The police station is a good place to check as well, and if they do not help I am pretty sure they can direct you to where you need to get such information
Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Our Heart's Desire must be nurtured by our mind,to give birth to common sense, that will enable us to seek out the path less traveled, with the greatest Personal Growth. -J.R.-
Interesting deal. Or I guess, non-deal. So many incredible things happen as we go day to day in this business!
Glad things are going so well for you now that you have escaped you j.o.b!
Best wishes!
Karen
"You're never too old to be what you were meant to be!"
www.deangraziosi.com/real-estate-forums/investing-journals/59128/day-for...
"Shining Like a Star & Dancing on Sunshine"
"Shoot for the moon! Even if you fall short, you'll still land among the stars!"
Joel,
True but honestly I don't know many people who would have time to visit or call the police station. I for one do not. This is truly a rare occurrence, but the good ol World Wide Web should help us quickly find out this info.
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
Thanks Karen! Yeah, you live and you learn...that's for sure!
leaving the j.o.b. was the best choice I've made. Glad to hear from you! Have a good one!!!
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
well, this is something that I don't think any of us would have thought about before... neighbors can be your best allies sometimes, and save you lots of money and/or headaches! so it's best that we as investors hear things from the neighbors before our buyers do!
I'm glad that your sellers were willing to take the property back... maybe you can still wholesale it to someone who wouldn't mind living there??
love your new picture!
Valerie
“And will you succeed? Yes indeed, yes indeed! Ninety-eight and three-quarters percent guaranteed!” ― Dr. Seuss
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Lenee yea glad you were able to resolve it & potentially get another deal for them. i will have to remember to google the prop I am working on also I think if there was a crime there it should come up there, here in Ca I think they are legally bound to inform you if there was a death, almost sure sounds like a CA law-which I think is good, at least one of these laws are good here.
Tony
Go faster do more! GFDM!
You are both right. However, there have been some deals that I haven't even seen.... So in that situation, you must rely on people to be truthful and disclose
won't always happen, but it's worth a shot. And I def agree that when one can talk to neighbors, to do so. It'll save a lot of headache! I checked here in Indy and if a licensed rep would of been involved, it would of been their responsibility to discover and disclose.
Thanks Val! That baby I was holding in my hands in the other pic is now 2 1/2 and can do back flips!! ;P I had to switch it up! Hope all is well with you.
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~
sellers don't have to legally disclose unless they are selling the property through a licensed (registered) real estate agent; the state's purchase and sale agreement contains several disclosure pages with questions that they need to answer.. which actually gives me an idea: we, as investors/wholesalers could draft our own version of a disclosure form to have our sellers fill out when we put a deal under contract; this would make sellers accountable in case something like this happened and they did not want to return money and take back their property...
Lenee, I can't believe the baby is 2 1/2!!! wow!!! how time flies!! really??!!
and doing backflips!!! kids!! they grow so fast! you need to update your photo at least once a year so we can keep up! lol!
Valerie
“And will you succeed? Yes indeed, yes indeed! Ninety-eight and three-quarters percent guaranteed!” ― Dr. Seuss
"I believe in angels, the kind that heaven sends; I am surrounded by angels, but I call them friends" - Unknown
My journal: http://www.deangraziosi.com/real-estate-forums/investing-journals/59110/...
Under California Civil Code Section 1710.2, if someone dies on the property, it's a material defect – but only if the death occurred within three years of the date you make an offer to purchase or rent the home. California law also provides that if you actually ask the seller or lessor about deaths that may have occurred on the property, the owner can't lie. California allows you to file a lawsuit against the seller, lessor, his agent or broker – or even your own agent or broker – for failure to disclose.
California Civil Code Section 1710.2 makes an exception for deaths caused by acquired immune deficiency syndrome. Federal law classifies AIDS as a disability, so disclosure of someone's death due to this cause is considered discriminatory.
P.S. - Everything else is immaterial, irrelevant, and unnecessary.
You are so right about that Val!!!! Now my brain is churning
lol! That makes a lot of sense, and actually I considered creating one that contained more info about showing, key release, etc... (Maybe I'll add that clause too)
Happy 4th!
Lenee
www.allstarhouses.com
~Act successful! And you'll draw it to you.~
~Every achievement, big or small, begins in your mind. It starts as a thought.~